Russ on Perseverance

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Sat, 04 Jun 2005 20:00:00 +0100

Russ said,
Quote:

This regenerating of our lives sustains our faith such that although it may ebb and flow, it is never extinguished

That\'s Perseverance. You can change the word to preservation but God preserves us to persevere.
The Arminian claims assurance on a false premise. He doesn\'t merely stumble into sin but leaps into sin and says not to worry because He\'s been saved. (Where there is no fruit there is no root.) He excuses himself by calling it \"backsliding\" and claims the hope that one day he\'ll return to the church and walk in faith. Will he? What is the guarantee? Has God promised him tomorrow? Does his life offer evidence of saving grace?
True believers \"Persevere\" because God has promised that what HE began in us, HE will bring to completion.
However, God will \"Preserve\" the unregenerate for the day of judgment. - Tim

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Sat, 04 Jun 2005 20:00:00 +0100

Brother that strikes me as a huge misrepresentation of the Arminian position. The Arminian would likely claim that the Calvinist God is the author of sin and self-contradictory and I�m sure you as a Calvinist would say that he would be making a tremendously false claim regarding the Calvinist position. Indeed, Paul has received such a response regarding sin from some folk during his day and he made sure to answer it in Romans 6. Beside that what fruit would you say is evidence of salvation? Is it one fruit or many fruit? Is there a set number of fruit? How much fruit says �there�s proof that I am saved�? Or are my questions a misrepresentation? God bless you. - Rey

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Sat, 04 Jun 2005 20:00:00 +0100

Ditto what Rey says. Unfortunately, the logical conclusion of what you are saying, Tim, is that we can never be certain of our salvation for the same reasons that I noted in the article. How can I be certain that I am not deceiving myself into thinking that \\\'God\\\' is giving me the strength to persevere - the heart is deceitfully wicked above all things you know (that is what we were teaching in TD wasn\\\'t it)? The logical end of what you claim is that we are to look for acts of salvation in a person\\\'s life in order to ascertain their salvation - I would rather look for signs of faith and with that assurance challenge them to grow fruit which will include acts that accompany salvation. On that I can with assurance help them to understand that it truly is not what they do that shows their assurance of eternal life, but what they believe. On a completely different note, I was psyched that I got a 5/5 rating on Rey\\\'s site until I found it its just his \\\'tests\\\' below :sad: - Pastor Russ

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Sat, 04 Jun 2005 20:00:00 +0100

LOL! sorry brother. I\\\'m testing out this new commenting system that, God willing, will be less bulky than this thing I\\\'m currently using. - Rey

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Sat, 04 Jun 2005 20:00:00 +0100

I don\\\'t understand the difference you\\\'re making between \\\ - Tim

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Sat, 04 Jun 2005 20:00:00 +0100

Tim - Your points are well taken. The dichotomy, for me, is perhaps a false one. What I believe is what I will do and what I do shows what I believe. The doing is never seperated from the faith and vice versa (cf. Hebrews 11). Thus, we have two ways that we can ascertain whether a person is a true believer - either by their works or by their heart. I will readily admit that my bias regarding viewing a person\\\'s works is that both personally and with others that I grew up with in church, the actions can be faked. I realize that the heart is deceitful and so ascertaining their heart can be just as misleading. Perhaps a better way of saying this is that not only must the fruit look good, but it must also taste good. Both the actions (look good) and the heart (taste good) must be there in order for true faith to be exhibited. Such faith, therefore, is not only the fruit that God is growing but it is also not rotten inside... - Pastor Russ