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Sat, 25 Jun 2005 19:22:02 +0100

Written by david on 2005-05-20 14:34:14
So far, so good, Rey. I\'m not sure about this,
[quote]
The theologian (who knows much more than me) will say that the baptism is done by the Holy Spirit by placing believers in Christ and so forth. I say that Christ does the baptizing with the agent of the Holy Spirit.[/quote]
but I think you\'ve escaped the heretic tag so far.

Written by biblerey on 2005-05-20 14:50:19
Yeah, I figured folk wouldn\'t swallow that one even and it mostly has to do with making a Person an Agent. It\'s a problem that I had to deal with myself because Water is Not Alive so to speak and the Holy Spirit is very much alive. There are many other issues involved in my thinking the Spirit is the agent but it\'ll probably have to happen in its own post. :(
I\'m sure the heretic tag isn\'t too far out of reach just yet though. heh heh.

Written by david on 2005-05-20 18:04:05
I didn\'t mean you were wrong, just that I\'m sceptical. You should explain it further, as you said, in another post. Then I\'ll be able to say conclusively that you\'re wrong!

Written by biblerey on 2005-05-20 18:16:47
:p :grin

Written by Klompman on 2005-05-22 09:09:28
This is an interesting subject. I think the overall teaching of the NT is for believer\'s baptism: \"John came ... preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins\" Mk 1:4. I believe baptism sybolizes identification with Christ: \"buried with Him in baptism\" Col 2:12.

But then there are other verses that may confuse us: \"baptism does also now save us\" 1Pe 3:21 but baptism is not a sole condition: \"He who believes and is baptized shall be saved\" since the emphasis is still on believing: \"but he who does not believe will be condemned. Mk 16:16

Written by William Meisheid on 2005-05-22 12:13:04
Saying there is one baptism - the Ephesians passage - doesn\'t mean it is necessary for salvation (e.g. the thief on the cross and many, if not all OT saints). Instead you can only argue from that statement that for those who come to salvation there is only one baptism that matters, just like there is only one Lord and one Faith.
What I find most depressing in Christianity is how all of us at times read our aprioris into the text rather than letting the text speak to and modify our aprioris.

Written by biblerey on 2005-05-22 12:43:36
Definitely a logical falacy and I had to run with it to try to illustrate which baptism mattered. As it stands Rory seems to be saying that Water Baptism is the Saving Baptism and the Only Baptism that matters to result in Salvation. Brother Klompman, those are passages that Rory used to support his argument. - Rey

One Baptism Versus the Many?

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